I couldn't ID these two using Molczan or select.tle files. Any ideas? 10/4/97 0057UT Observing location: 41.0N 80.0W elev. 200m Observed two identical sats moving up and right in the west, heading approximately 030, mag 1.5, fading to invisibility at about 55 degrees up. They were fast and a bit reddish. One followed the other on the same track within the space of a minute. Both passed about a degree or two northwest of Beta and Zeta Herculis (azimuth 255, elevation 45 deg; azimuth 270, elevation 55 deg), going into shadow just past the "Keystone" (Wouldn't they have to be awfully low to go into shadow that soon?). Observed both naked eye, the first also with 7x35 binoculars. Perhaps a recent launch that I missed? Decaying debris? On another subject, observed NOAA 11 (88 089A, #19531) tonight (Oct. 5), steady at mag 6.0, no flares, glints, or flashes. NOSS 2-3 r (96 029B, #23907) was about 5 degress west of track predicted by this elset from the Molczan file: NOSS 2-3 r 9.8 3.0 0.0 4.8 v 1 23907U 96029 B 97267.17405277 .00018800 00000-0 23725-3 0 03 2 23907 63.4234 312.0023 0138000 150.9571 209.0429 15.48473203 09 It was flashing (flaring?) smoothly with about an 8 second period from mag 5.0 to 2.0. Eric Vondra Pittsburgh PA