Robert Smathers wrote ----------- In the daytime, I bet you can see venus and jupiter if you use a telescope to "cut through" the daytime light. ----------- I've seen the moons of jupiter through my telescope with the sun less than a degree (a couple minutes) below the horizon, and am sure i could do it during the mid afternoon. I've heard it's all in the length of your lens hood; indeed, I once heard a story that miners could regularly see stars out the mouth of a mineshaft while coming up to the surface FOR LUNCH! so if you have a handy mineshaft and good elsets, those noon-time iridium flares will be no trouble. Incidently, by the same theory, i've heard (and personally taken advantage of) the fact that rock quarries and pits that block the lower 30d or so of sky are the best lens hoods money can't buy (principly for astrophotography), though this is all getting rather off topic... cheers, Tyler (Joe Stats) MacKenzie Department of Oceanography, Dalhousie University, Halifax, Canada http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/5918/ 44.636N 63.595W 50m ASL