Re: tumbling rocket and satellite

From: Björn Gimle via Seesat-l <seesat-l_at_satobs.org>
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2019 15:31:03 +0200
I agree strongly with Alains comments.
But I seldom analyze flash observations/photos. When I do, I concentrate of
the subtle differences between individual maxima  (or minima) intervals,
and disappearing/appearing maxima/minima.
--------------------------------------------------------
Björn Gimle, COSPAR 5919
59.2617 N, 18.6169 E, 51 m
---------------------------------------------------------


Den mån 22 apr. 2019 kl 13:38 skrev Alain Figer via Seesat-l <
seesat-l_at_satobs.org>:

> Very interesting. Superb !
>
> > it could be a string describing the pattern, or it could be a data series
> in some format to store the whole light curve.
>
> I would strongly plead for setting a link to access the whole light curve
> and/or photographic images.
> Many light curves are quite complex and deserve a careful examination.
> Focussing only on the period values is too restrictive, I mean. Especially
> after half a century of such a work of period assessing by amateurs. It's
> time, I believe,  to go beyond mere period variations and try and link
> photometric variations to the precise geometry of the satellite.
>
> Regards
> Alain Figer
>
> Le lun. 22 avr. 2019 à 13:15, <Daniel.Hampf_at_dlr.de> a écrit :
> ...

> One thing I wonder is the best data format: It could be only a float
> > (rotation or flash period), it could be a string describing the pattern,
> or
> > it could be a data series in some format to store the whole light curve.
> > Maybe one should offer all options.
> > Best regards
> > Daniel
> >
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Seesat-l [seesat-l-bounces+daniel.hampf=dlr.de_at_satobs.org] on
> > behalf of Alain Figer via Seesat-l [seesat-l_at_satobs.org]
> ...

>
> > If all our contributions were also present in the same data center, it
> > would be much easier to perform synthesis work, at will.
> > In such a mindset I issued Leo Barhorst 2014-2018 observations in the
> > Flickr's data center here :
> >
> >
> >
> https://www.flickr.com/groups/satellites_artificiels/discuss/72157689682699925/
> >
> >
> > For exemple this data center is open to receive contributions by anybody,
> > everybody being allowed to issue and update their own contributions
> there.
> > Synthesis work could be added there by anyone willing to do it..
> > Obviously another data center could be proposed for such a collaborating
> > platform. I am obviously ready to accept any other suggestion.
> >
> > Regards
> > Alain Figer
> >
> > Le lun. 22 avr. 2019 à 09:15, Brad Young <allenb_young_at_yahoo.com> a
> écrit
> > :
> >
> > > I would be very interested too, as I always enjoy viewing satellite
> > > optical behavior, and have missed the activity of PPAS and the working
> > > group; it was more active when I started in 23003. I was not aware of
> > > astroguard.ru providing data on optical behavior; I glanced at their
> > > public reports and will have to check that out more thoroughly.
> > >
> > > Some ideas to discuss:
> > >
> > >    - If you'd like to limit your work to only Russian sats, no
> problem. I
> > >    may take on a broader scope. As with JSC Vimpel's positional work,
> our
> > >    independent analysis won't hurt.
> > >    - Hopefully several others will join in the fun, and may have their
> > >    own targets in mind.
> > >    - I attached (1) a dump of my FPAS reports extant on satflare.com
> > >    - The originating data is also in seesat-l posts from me as"BY F
> > >    XXXXXX"(2)
> > >    - Unfortunately, satflare stopped adding any more reports from
> anyone
> > >    last year. Obviously, we would not want to use that for reports.
> > >    - No problem here with future reports using PPAS format, but (as Leo
> > >    once wrote to you, "I would like to renew also this list and attract
> > >    more amateurs to search these objects." This might a good time, as
> > sort of
> > >    a reboot, to consider alternatives.
> > >    - I'm going to start looking (and imaging) more variables and report
> > >    them via seesat.
> > >
> > > A few requests:
> > >
> > >    - My attempt to make a query on Space-Track to identify CIS /
> Russian
> > >    satellites that have not decayed and are not debris failed - do you
> > hav e a
> > >    list of targets of that ilk?
> > >    - I also attached (1) my current extrapolation of the previous PPAS
> > >    priority list (I always looked at Mike's site for this). It is just
> a
> > >    worksheet in the sprawling behemoth that is my main satellite
> > observing
> > >    spreadsheet. Again, with a reboot, we could look at improving both
> at
> > the
> > >    priorities are assigned and how the list is presented.
> > >
> > > Notes:
> > > 1) Attachments bowdlerized for list posting.
> > > 2) My seesat posts titles refer to:
> > >
> > > OO-T-[Location]-MMDDYY
> > >
> > > OO = observer's initials
> > > T = type of report
> > >
> > >    - D = decay (not yet, but soon I hope!)
> > >    - F = FPAS - refer to Simone's description at: FPAS Reports -
> > >    Specifications <http://www.satflare.com/fpas.asp>
> > >    - G = flaring geosynchronous satellite reports
> > >    - P = PPAS
> > >    - R = remote imaging
> > >    - S = steady (in a PPAS or FPAS format)
> > >    - V = general visual observations
> > >
> > > It should also include:
> > >
> > >    - A = clear all day, clouds at sunset
> > >    - E = equipment lost, broken, stolen
> > >    - O = outreach at star parties where, once you're branded the
> > >    "satellite guy" you are expected to know the name, owner, and launch
> > date
> > >    of every one that passes by
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brad Young Visual:
> > > 10 x 50 binoculars
> > > Meade ETX-125
> > > 22" f/4.2 UC Obsession
> > > COSPAR 8336 =TULSA1 +36.139208,-95.983429 660ft, 201m
> > > COSPAR 8335 =TULSA2 +35.8311  -96.1411 1083ft, 330m
> > > Remote Imaging:
> > > MPC I89 COSPAR 7777 38.165653 -2.326735 5150ft, 1650m Nerpio, Spain
> > > MPC Q62 COSPAR 7778 -31.2733 149.0644 3400ft, 1122m Siding Spring, NSW,
> > > Australia
> > > MPC H06 COSPAR 7779 32.92 -105.528 7298ft, 2225m Mayhill, New Mexico
> USA
> > > MPC U69 COSPAR 7780 37.07 -119.4 4610ft, 1405m Auberry CA USA
> > > MPC 323 COSPAR 7782 -32.008 116.135 984ft, 300m Perth, WA, Australia
> > > MPC Q67 COSPAR 7784 -33.3967 149.4917 2081ft, 650m Bathurst NSW,
> > Australia
> > > MPC W76 COSPAR 7785 -30.45 -70.75 5151 ft, 1570m Chacay, Chile
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sunday, April 21, 2019, 7:15:15 AM CDT, Alain Figer <
> > > alain.figer_at_gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > The PPAS has been an extremely efficient and fruitful project, for many
> > > many years,  but it's seemingly dead now and that's obviously a pity.
> > >
> > > In my opinion, the 'astroguard.ru' russian site builds now the best
> > > database (MMT data) up to date about photometric behaviour of
> satellites.
> > > The only problem is they keep secret all the info about russian
> > satellites.
> > >
> > > That's why I believe it would be of value to manage by ourselves a
> > > specific database for russian satellites.
> > > I am ready to take part enthusiastically to such a project.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Alain Figer
> > >
> > > N.B. I published my first observations in the PPAS database in 1973 as
> > AF.
> > >
> > > See my own database (since March 2012) about satellite observing :
> > >
> > > LIST OF BEST FLASHERS at:
> > > https://www.flickr.com/groups/1983844_at_N22/discuss/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Le dim. 21 avr. 2019 à 00:39, Brad Young via Seesat-l <
> > seesat-l_at_satobs.org>
> > > a écrit :
> > >
> > > There are quite a few PPAS type reports of tumbling objects and other
> > > visually interesting satellites at:
> > > http://www.satflare.com/fpas_query.asp
> > > in a sortable database.
> > > To stretch this thread a little bit, I stopped reporting to that site
> > > because it doesn’t seem to be updating any new observations. Would it
> be
> > > useful to resume making PPAS report in the old style? It doesn’t seem
> > like
> > > the PPAS list of interesting objects has been updated for quite some
> > time.
> > > I have a personal list that may be of some interest. If anyone has any
> > > ideas or if interested and follow up please contact me off the list.
> With
> > > the northern summer months, and, it will be a good time to revitalize
> > > optical behavior observing work.
> > > Brad
> > >
> > > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> > >
> > >
> > > On Saturday, April 20, 2019, 7:02 AM, tristan.cools--- via Seesat-l <
> > > seesat-l_at_satobs.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Thanks Alain, I will follow the discussion forums.  I knew about some
> > other
> > > Centaurs tumbling but to my knowledge it is rather rare but this is
> > solely
> > > based on my own observations.(my observations of Centaur rockets isn't
> > that
> > > large)  I have some trouble in finding updated PPAS records.  Are flash
> > > periods still beeïng reported somewhere ?  During the last 10 years I
> did
> > > some sporadic observations but didn't report anything anymore.
> > >
> > > gr, tristan cools
> > > Belgian Working Group Satellites
> > >
> > > Op za 20 apr. 2019 om 11:36 schreef Alain Figer <alain.figer_at_gmail.com
> >:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Tristan,
> > > >
> > > > > Most Centaur rockets have always been steady (according to my own
> > > > observations)
> > > >
> > > > I am somewhat surprised by such a statement, since it is not what I
> > have
> > > > been currently noticing.
> > > > See for instance several threads in my blog at :
> > > > https://www.flickr.com/groups/satellites_artificiels/
> > > >
> > > > More exhaustively, the russian site 'astroguard.ru' (MMT data) lists
> > > > multiple examples of flashing Atlas Centaur rockets.
> > > > Concerning 2007-060B their graph shows how the rotation period has
> been
> > > > decreasing for the last years ;  their last measurement is at 48.72s
> > for
> > > > the rotation period (twice your photometric period).
> > > >
> > > > See also the info by the same russian site about Landsat 4 1982-072A.
> > > > They measured a rotation period at 16.7 s in 2018 but observed the
> > rocket
> > > > as 'Aperiodic'  in other circumstances too.
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Alain Figer
> > > > Gometz: 48.67 N ; 2.13 E ; 170m a.s.l.
> > > > Vars: 44.57 N ; 6.68 E ; 1850m a.s.l.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Le sam. 20 avr. 2019 à 10:28, tristan.cools--- via Seesat-l <
> > > > seesat-l_at_satobs.org> a écrit :
> > > >
> > > >> Hi all,
> > > >>
> > > >> Most Centaur rockets have always been steady(according to my own
> > > >> observations) but I was surprised to see 07-60B/32379 as a nice
> > regular
> > > >> varying object with a period of about 23s.  I think I will follow
> this
> > > >> object to see it's future flash behaviour.  Maybe this has already
> > been
> > > >> reported...
> > > >>
> > > >> Another object, is the Landsat 4 satellite(82-72A/13367), no exact
> > > period
> > > >> measured but around 30s with sharp and round maxima.  In my old
> > records
> > > I
> > > >> had a notice written that this satellite did have a mechanism to be
> > > >> retrieved by the Space Shuttle.  Well, it is too late for that, but
> > only
> > > >> one satellite I think has ever been retrieved and re-launched I
> > > remember.
> > > >>
> > > >> greetings,
> > > >> Tristan Cools
> > > >> Belgian Working Group Satellites.
> > > >> _______________________________________________
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> > > >>
> > > >
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Received on Mon Apr 22 2019 - 08:32:33 UTC

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